Wednesday, October 14, 2009

Doctors - bullies at heart - Doctors Net UK

Thank you Jeremy Laurence for giving me fair hearing in the Independent yesterday. Your article was honest and told it as it was. Click here to read it

For those people who think that doctors have any consideration for the mentally ill, beyond getting them out of their clinics, the following story shows how it is today.


In an pseudo funny account of what happened to a deeply disturbed woman who interrupted his clinic, a well known doctor and medical tabloid columnist wrote, on a private medical forum, under the title "Acute Psychosis Fun"


It may seem funny to describe people in this way, but it reminds me of Victorian ladies, visiting the local asylum on a Sunday afternoon. It also reminds me of playground bullying. These doctors need to be brought before the General Medical Council for bringing the profession into disrepute.

The GMC prowls the pages of that private doctors forum, looking for those doctors who are naive enough to disclose their mental health problems or express opinions about Dame Carol Black.

But the GMC does not give a toss about attitudes to people with mental health problems. Try substituting the words "Paki" or "Gay" for psychotic and see how it reads. At least there is a law against that kind of abuse.

And for those who have an obsessive and unhealthy interest in this blog and this post, I suggest you click here on this link

and for more information about how the GMC works you can Click here

and click here



Trevor Malcolm, Portsmouth, Hampshire said...

11pm, Portsmouth: Dr Liz: Crumbs, what a day 14th October 2009, has proved to be for you

My only concern is personal, not professional; ie that you survived the alarming comments made against you, relatively unscathed. It must've obliterated the sweet memories some 48 hours ago, in the aftermath of the success of your book launch

Amazon delivered my copy this morning, I'm delighted to report. In fact, I'd logged on to share an amusing anecdote about its delivery, only to be confronted by a truckload of black bile, meted out by "colleagues" - the most prolific of which seems to be named "anonymous" or other

Listen up, lad, if you've got something to tell us, you believe merits Dr Miller and her readers focus of attention, kindly reveal who you are, Treacle, eh?

Your contributions make you sound like PondLife and Pie-Throwers. Shameful conduct

And you've served no purpose but to share your pig-ignorance. I am reading Dr Miller's book tomorrow anyway, regardless of your multiple-patheticisms

Sweet dreams to Dr Liz and her friends. Nightmares and World War II flashbacks to the rest of you. Old farts

Trevor Malcolm



Anonymous said...

Just to confirm, if any doctor opts to harass Dr Miller, we plan to place their identities on NHS Behind the Headlines with their GMC number with a invite for the GMC to evoke Rule 57. We hope this is clear. Finally, there is no such thing as anonymity because anything can be detected from an IP address.

Best Wishes

Dr Rita Pal

Dr. Liz Miller said...

Thanks Rita,

I deleted the rubbish, ♠lest I was tempted to let you have their IP addresses.

Anonymous said...

Dear Dr Miller,
I read the evening standard today.
I saw your name and picture. I told my sister "that's the Doctor i told you.. very dedicated and caring when i had ......".
FYI i was once your patient _ years ago (approx). From my experience then... you are one of the most dedicated and kind and neutral Doctor I have ever met. For that i thanked you.
For whatever pain and suffering you have been through, i think it is because you are a selfless character, too kind and too caring as a person equally as a doctor.(aQUALITY which is rare nowadays to find among any professionals alike) you are just human like anyone of us.
God Bless your heart Doctor!
What ever you do to help the pain of mankind, every little effort helps.He shall continue to show you the guidance for you to lead the impart knowledge.

Keep on writing..
take care

Dr. Liz Miller said...

Thanks - I hope I hope I was some help ;-)

Anonymous said...

Well, help can come in any forms and shape. For me, you have helped me then with your effort etc to get me sorted by cutting throught he red tape etc.
That I still remember. That act was a good deed indeed.Only the Almighty can repay you.
for now- the public need more of you. Keep up the good work.
Bless you.


Dr Philip M Peverley said...

Dear Dr Miller,

My name is Dr Philip Peverley, I'm a GP in Sunderland, my number is in the phone book.

I post on DNUK under my own name, because I stand by everything I write. If you Google the name Phil Peverley, you'll see a lot of other stuff that I write too.

You have wilfully misrepresented my post on DNUK, for reasons that are at the moment unclear. You initially used my real name, although you are now calling me Sir Dunking Ugly, and I have screenshots of those original posts.

You may be aware that defamation is a crime. You have attacked my professional reputation.

You'll publish a retraction and an apology, otherwise I'll sue the shit out of you. I am not joking.

You don't have long. Get on with it.

Best wishes,
Dr Phil Peverley

Anonymous said...

Do you want to know where your Internet visitors are coming from? Which country? Which state? Which city? Which ISP? Which domain name? Which connection type? Which ZIP code?

to avoid nonsense messages you can instal the followings:


the above is good to have on your blog, esp for rude anonymous with no IT insight..thinking they can hide behind anonymous..hahaha tough luck for them!

good luck!

Robbie Coull said...


I think it is very important that we tackle the stigma of mental health issues and the terrible toll this takes on patients with these problems.

However, I think you are wrong to suggest that doctors laughing at patient's behind closed doors is by itself a sign of lack of empathy.

I laugh at patient's all the time. Usually with them, if I think they will see the funny side too. That's very therapeutic, if delicate, but not always possible.

Some times, laughter in private is the only way that a compassionate doctor can stay sane.

I've met many, many doctors who did not laugh at patients, but who had no compassion. Perhaps, they had no need of the release that laughter brings BECAUSE they had no compassion.

I have also seen 'schoolyard' laughter which server no purpose.

As Clive James wisely says: (1) humour is commmon sense dancing, and (2) things do not stop being sad when someone laughs any more than things stop being funny when someone dies.

Doctors are different. They are different because of what they have experienced. We have all killed someone by our mistake. We have all watched many people suffer and die, knowing that we are inadequate to the task. What is funny to us, is not funny to civilians who have not experienced these traumas on a regular basis and who have to rise the next morning to face the sick and dying and sad and unhappy again.

Ban medical humour, and you risk banning common sense and compassion from those people who can cope no other way with the purgetory that is spending your life watching others' suffering.

To many compassionate, caring, doctors, the 'impulse' comment was funny. Sad, and terrible, but funny. And I say that with compassion.

Dr. Liz Miller said...

I am sorry you were so deeply offended by my interpretation of your remarks, and I unreservedly apologise and retract everything I have said, that might in any way adversely affect your repuation.

I have removed all reference to your posting, which I hope satisfies you.

What I say on this subject is of little consequence. What matters far more is the attitude of doctors towards people with mental health problems.

When I find doctors making fun of people who have mental distress, and causing other people to make jokes about those people, I find it deeply offensive. The attitude of doctors to people with mental health difficulties was well reflected in the comments on this blog, which I have also removed.

I can well imagine that you find the above position hard to understand, and that you respond by writing threatening comments, so be it. It is this attitude all too typical of doctors towards patients or anyone who displeases them, that I find offensive

Dr. Liz Miller said...

Robbie - I did not find the schoolyard humour of the posters funny or empathic

There is no compassion or intelligence shown when someone in severe distress is mocked by a crowd of doctors

If nothing else, it demeans the doctors. That column would not have been written about any other minority group, other than people with mental health problems. And why, because they can and no one bats and eyelid.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately it is true in my experience that many doctors are bullies and the worst offenders tend to be 'psychaitists'.

From an analysis of my case notes going back to November 1982, there is a consistent pattern of GPS ( with notable exceptions) being kind, honest and wanting to help and then sending you to 'psychaitrists' who are dishonest manipulative bullies with no insight into human motivations or behaviour.

I see with a horrified fascination that the sub-literate 'doctor' who bullied and sexually assaulted me into my first suicide attempt just after my seventeenth birthday has written in the notes that a boy who used to beat me with a broom and bully me only did it because he was 'insecure' because he was adopted.

I futher explained that my father had 'outbursts of anger because of his condition'. And the 'doctor' also wrote in the notes that I had told him that I had told my housemaster at Radley I felt like slashing my wrists on 3rd December 1982 and wanted to be taken seriously; ie about being a girl.

Also, I had an 'expectation': 'wants me to listen'. Three days later, I made my first attempt at suicide. He was supposed to be giving me 'expert counselling' and had in fact committed a criminal offence against me.

On 17th November, he has recorded in the notes that I was sane and asking for a referral to a specialist because I was frightened over what to do. The whole incident will be impossible to explain for him.

On 7th December 1982, I was 'assessed' by Dr Anthony Storr who was sent the diary I had written for his 'perusal' but ignored it. It sat in the files until 2008.

In 1985, I told Dr McDonald in Redruth that I had the impression that Storr had made up his mind in advance what the problem was and was not interested in hearing my side of the story. I now have his notes. I was right.

A classic quote from his letter to Dr Thorne, the GP : 'I am not quite sure why his rebellion against the authorities started'.

Four days before this Dr Thorne had written to my mother saying my problems with the authorities 'seemed to relate, in [my] own mind to the free expression of my personality.' Well done Dr Thorne! It helps if you listen to people.

Free expression involved what Storr describes as 'artificially blonde hair' and 'quite a lot of make-up'!

That is a pattern which repeated itself from 1982 to 2008. Nice GPs who recognised the true nature of my situation at the time - Dr Mairs, for example, recognised I was traumatised in 1996 and Dr Brading, Dr Ord Hume etc have recognised the trauma I am dealing with.

Nearly all of the injuries have been sustained at the hands of bullying abusive psychaitists. We need to change attitudes to psychological problems.

Psychiatry's lack of insight is shown in these ridiculous 'mental state assessments' where they think they know better than you do whether you are depressed/suicidal etc.

Bullying is a very serious problem and particularly in 'mental health'. Those incompetents who want to control and dominate vulnerable people - and we are all vulnerable to psychiatists - are drawn to this area like flies to honey.

In my own work with a chap who had been 'diagnosed' with all sorts of things like autism dyslexia etc I adopted the opposite approach and told him what was right with him rather what was wrong. After a considerable period, he turned to me and said, 'You are not like the rest of them. You don't hate me'. Interesting eh!

Bullying does not toughen you up or build character, it destroys lives. The Royal College of Shrinkage have on their website a policy that repeated successful complaints of bullying are a problem. What a disgrace!

They also call for 'sex incident audits' rather than investigations and high profile prosecutions. That is what we need.

And put really good people like you and Rita in their place. I am looking forward to the book when I get a moment to read it.

raysgirl said...

I've had some mental illness myself. To be honest, if my docs want to have a laugh in private, it's no skin off my nose. Chill out Liz!

Dr. Liz Miller said...

a - it was not in private
b - they were also skinning my nose
c - the remarks were peurile and prurient, rather than funny and have now been removed, which is where I came in

Given the power that doctors have over people with mental health problems, attitudes need to be based in empathy and compassion, rather than "Them" and "Us"

Sorry I think we need a major rethink - but each to their own ;-)

raysgirl said...

no. I think Robbie's hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't want a doc with no sense of humour (and I've met a few of them, I can tell you)

Anonymous said...

I did not see the comments but have to observe that there is a huge difference between laughing at someone in distress and laughing with them.

There is an article on my blog written by Hamish Rattray while he was locked up in the local prisoner of war camp by a psychiatist now known at Radley College as 'Herr Schlick':

I used to go and visit him as often as I could in that bleak environment and we would find things to laugh about. Afterwards he said he enjoyed the visits.

I was sent to the same psychatrist
during the police investigation for saying to the GP, 'I regard Hamish as my personal physician'.
The GP said, in a very disrespectful tone, 'Hamish?'
'Yes, Hamish, he always makes me laugh'.

That is true. He vaildated the abuse and told the truth. These ar not things 'professionals' do.

Herr Shlick then wrote to the GP to say that 'Kate Middleton... developed an ambition to be a "princess" at the Dragon School and there were some good things about my time at Radley (a Rugby academy); 'for example, she enjoyed going to the figure skating club.'

Hamish was very cross about this and said I shouldn't lie to a psychaitrist but I explained that I had said nothing untrue, it was just his interpretation of what I had said.

Hamish was then exasperated because he said I seemed to find psychiatry funny. Doctors are legitimate targets. Especially ones like Schlich who has acknowledged a serious crime against me as a child by a psychiatist and still failed to report it - even with the evidence on CD. That is really not a laughing matter. I have 27 years worth of medical records wher I have repeatedly reported the abuse.


It was a Belloc line which rescued me at my worst ebb in 1996 after my life and career had been practically destroyed by evil doctors. 'Physicans of the utmost fame were called and when they came, they murmured as they took their fees, Henry will very soon be dead'.

I thought this was hilarious at the time and summarised the majority of doctors.

It is excellent to laugh at arrogant pricks with no insight into their own uselessness and no compassion towards the person that they are being paid to help.

Someone like Dr Miller who has been there is never going to laugh at someone in distress. She is a wounded healer.

Dr. Liz Miller said...

Raysgirl - I tried putting up a description of the comments but was met with further threats from lawyers by XXXX
If you would like to email me privately at liz at lizmiller dot co do uk I am happy to send you a copy of the comment to which I objected because I would be interested in your opinion as to whether I was right to object to the discussion or not
Robbie's comment is the only doctor comment I left on the blog, apart from Phil Peverleys, because I think he does make a useful point.

I have no problem with medical jokes, I have a problem when they are made at the expense of people who cannot defend themselves.

Ten years ago, it was acceptable to make jokes about the Irish, the Pakistanis, the Poles. Such jokes are no longer considered acceptable, but it does not mean that everyone has stopped laughing, or lost their sense of humour.

Yes humour is important. Without humour I would not be able to write what I do on this blog - I would be keel hauled on a regular basis. But the point is not to attack people who are vulnerable and cannot defend themselves.

I found it hard to defend myself against comments such as "are you taking your medication luv" and I have more resources than most people with mental health problems

Dr. Liz Miller said...

For the record, it was not Phil Peverley's original post to which I objected, only the use to which it was put by later posters within the private medical forum

Part of the problem in the forum, is that posters are allowed to be anonymous and posts are rated according to how funny or extreme other doctors find them.

This encourages extreme behaviour as the "Boys own Brigade" (apologies to boys everywhere, there are probably just as many women in it) egg each other on to more and more extreme comments in desparate attempts to get a laugh or at least a recommendation. This is largely done behind "closed profiles".

And yes Kate, thanks for your support. There is nothing wrong with humour as long as we laugh with people, not at them. Unless they happen to be Stand Up Comedians ie volunteers and in a position to leave or defend themslves, when it is known as "heckling"

Brambo said...


Anonymous said...

Hi Liz.

When you say stand-up comedians are you specifically referring to the bunch of comedians who have volunteered to be memebers of the Royal College of Shrinkage?

They have on their website a paper arguing for exorcism of women in my position to be researched and carried out under the NHS. This makes their motives rather transparent doesn't it?

What will they come up with next? NICE guidelines for burning at the stake?

How many idiotic shrinks does it take to exorcise a witch?

Only one, but the witch has to want to be exorcised.

Peter Redgrove,co-author of The Wise Wound: Eve's curse and everywoman said to me in November 1988 that I would one day be a 'wise woman'.

It was not until I read the book that I realised that my experience for many year was very typical of female experience of male psychiatrists.

The chapter in which Redgrove and his wife Penelope Shuttle argue that modern psychiatric diagnoses used by psychoanalysts to condemn and judge women echo the forms of diagnosis used in the medieval witch hunts was particularly relevant. When I got to the bit on wise women, I laughed.

The 'are you still taking your medication, luv' remark is a variation on the old theme of hysteria, histrionic behaviour etc.

I had that one a couple of years ago when Dr Khoosal was being investigated by the police and I was stressed because it had now been going for 27 years. The arrogant disgusting GP who made the remark had never met me before and turned to his computer and said,'Oh you are not taking any medication'.

I have to laugh at idiots and maudsley trained frauds like Dr Alan Sanderson. 'Roger the physician' is the case study for exorcism. What a suggestive idea:

You will note the the author of the case study linked to the Royal College website. Dr Edith Fiore has written a book on Alien posession with a self test to see if one is possessed!

What is paricularly Californian is that the female spirit is persuaded out of Roger when Fiore speaks of the 'beautiful, youthful body she would have when she went into the spirit world with her loved ones. When I mentioned the exquisite wardrobe that she could have...'

I have to laugh otherwise I would cry:

Dr. Liz Miller said...

Definitely laugh, always try laughing first. I am off to check this stuff out - too much!

"Aliens invade Royal College of Psychiatrists", you have to be joking... ??

Anonymous said...

I unreservedly apologise and retract everything I have said


***** ** ****** ** to you too